Discussion:
Jack Smith's October Cheap Shot
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Ubiquitous
2024-10-12 02:05:01 UTC
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Jack Smith has failed in his quest to try Donald Trump before the 2024
election. So instead, the special counsel has bent ordinary procedure
to get in one last shot, just weeks before voters go to the polls.

Smith has now dropped a 165-page doorstop of a filing in federal court,
on the issue of Trump’s immunity from prosecution. Judge Tanya Chutkan
— who suddenly claims not to care about the impending election despite
her earlier efforts to expedite the case to get it in before the very
same election, which got her reversed and chastised by the Supreme
Court — duly complied with Smith’s wishes, redacted out a few obvious
names (who ever might “Arizona Governor [Redacted P-16]” be?), and made
the rest public.

There are two headlines here. The immediate takeaway lies in the
revelations contained in Smith’s oversize brief. (He asked the judge
for, and received, permission to file a brief that was 180 pages long,
four times the normal maximum.) We now have damning new details on
Trump’s effort to pressure Vice-President Mike Pence to throw the
election his way, Trump’s phone use and use of Twitter as the riot
unfolded, and his conversations with family members about efforts to
contest his electoral loss. The story’s structure is the same as we’ve
long known, but the new details lend depth and dimension.

The larger, if less obvious, headline is that Smith has essentially
abandoned any pretense; he’ll bend any rule, switch up on any practice
— so long as he gets to chip away at Trump’s electoral prospects. At
this point, there’s simply no defending Smith’s conduct on any sort of
principled or institutional basis. “But we need to know this stuff
before we vote!” is a nice bumper sticker, but it’s neither a response
to nor an excuse for Smith’s unprincipled, norm-breaking practice. (It
also overlooks the fact that the Justice Department bears
responsibility for taking over two and a half years to indict in the
first place.)

Let’s go through the problems with what Smith has done here.

First, this is backward. The way motions work — under the federal
rules, and consistent with common sense — is that the prosecutor files
an indictment; the defense makes motions (to dismiss charges, to
suppress evidence, or what have you); and then the prosecution responds
to those motions. Makes sense, right? It’s worked for hundreds of years
in our courts.

Not here. Not when there’s an election right around the corner and
dwindling opportunity to make a dent. So Smith turned the well-
established, thoroughly uncontroversial rules of criminal procedure on
their head and asked Judge Chutkan for permission to file first — even
with no actual defense motion pending. Trump’s team objected, and the
judge acknowledged that Smith’s request to file first was “procedurally
irregular” — moments before she ruled in Smith’s favor, as she’s done
at virtually every consequential turn.

Which brings us to the second point: Smith’s proactive filing is
prejudicial to Trump, legally and politically. It’s ironic. Smith has
complained throughout the case that Trump’s words might taint the jury
pool. Accordingly, the special counsel requested a gag order that was
so preposterously broad that even Judge Chutkan slimmed it down
considerably (and the Court of Appeals narrowed it further after that).

Yet Smith now uses grand-jury testimony (which ordinarily remains
secret at this stage) and drafts up a tidy 165-page document that
contains all manner of damaging statements about a criminal defendant,
made outside of a trial setting and without being subjected to the
rules of evidence or cross-examination, and files it publicly,
generating national headlines. You know who’ll see those allegations?
The voters, sure — and also members of the jury pool.

And that brings us to our final point: Smith’s conduct here violates
core DOJ principle and policy. The Justice Manual — DOJ’s internal
bible, essentially — contains a section titled “Actions That May Have
an Impact on the Election.” Now: Does Smith’s filing qualify? May it
have an impact on the election? Of course. So what does the rule tell
us? “Federal prosecutors … may never select the timing of any action,
including investigative steps, criminal charges, or statements, for the
purpose of affecting any election.”

Remember, Smith begged the judge to flip the rules on their head so he
could file this document first, and quickly — “any action,” by any
reasonable definition — with the election right around the corner.
Anyone who objected to James Comey’s outrageous announcements about the
Hillary Clinton email investigation on the eve of the 2016 election
should feel the same about Smith’s conduct now. What’s the distinction?
Both violated ordinary procedure to take public steps, shortly before
an election, that plainly would have an impact on that election.

I’m going to hand this one over to one of DOJ’s most esteemed alums,
who explained it this way to the Justice Department’s internal
watchdog: “To me if it [an election] were 90 days off, and you think it
has a significant chance of impacting an election, unless there’s a
reason you need to take that action now, you don’t do it.”

Those words were spoken by Sally Yates — former deputy attorney
general, venerated career prosecutor, no fan of Trump (who
unceremoniously fired her in 2017), and liberal folk hero. As usual,
Yates is spot on. And her explanation conveys this indelible truth: If
prosecutors bend their principles depending on the identity of their
prey, then they’ve got no principles at all.

--
Let's go Brandon!
Chris Ahlstrom
2024-10-10 11:09:11 UTC
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Post by Ubiquitous
Jack Smith has failed in his quest to try Donald Trump before the 2024
election. So instead, the special counsel has bent ordinary procedure
to get in one last shot, just weeks before voters go to the polls.
<snip>
Not like the surprise Comey pulled on Hillary in 2016, eh?

"We're reopening the investigation."

"Oh, now we're closing it again."
--
Welcome to Utah.
If you think our liquor laws are funny, you should see our underwear!
Henry Bodkin
2024-10-10 13:58:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Post by Ubiquitous
Jack Smith has failed in his quest to try Donald Trump before the 2024
election. So instead, the special counsel has bent ordinary procedure
to get in one last shot, just weeks before voters go to the polls.
<snip>
Not like the surprise Comey pulled on Hillary in 2016, eh?
"We're reopening the investigation."
"Oh, now we're closing it again."
Trump's a victim of the justice system. Don't you feel sorry for the poor
loser?

If he doesn't like it he shouldn't break the law.
Lil dwarf Rudey
2024-10-10 19:22:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henry Bodkin
If he doesn't like it he shouldn't break the law.
Why are you death threat prosecution exempt by the Feds so far?

Let's do our best to change that, shall we:


Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party/Alan Bond/Henry Bodkin and a
few dozen other socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400


Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <***@gmx.com>
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Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
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Post by Henry Bodkin
No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
Post by Henry Bodkin
is an important step to getting there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.


https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

The United States Secret Service is conducting the investigation in this
case. The United States Attorney’s Office, District of Arizona, is
handling the prosecution.


Those can be reported here:

https://tips.fbi.gov/home

https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-crime-or-submit-complaint

https://www.secretservice.gov/contact

https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something/reporting/california


Fellow citizens, won't you join in ending Rudey's terrorism here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Ahlstrom
2024-10-10 22:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Henry Bodkin
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Post by Ubiquitous
Jack Smith has failed in his quest to try Donald Trump before the 2024
election. So instead, the special counsel has bent ordinary procedure
to get in one last shot, just weeks before voters go to the polls.
<snip>
Not like the surprise Comey pulled on Hillary in 2016, eh?
"We're reopening the investigation."
"Oh, now we're closing it again."
Trump's a victim of the justice system. Don't you feel sorry for the poor
loser?
If he doesn't like it he shouldn't break the law.
Trump can't help it. He's been a lifelong crimer, thanks to his racist Vater
Drumpf and his velvet shiv lawyer Cohn.

I'll bet his settled out-of-court lawsuits number in the 100's.

Trump's got your "six" :-D (see below)
--
"Hey Ivan, check your six."
-- Sidewinder missile jacket patch, showing a Sidewinder driving up
the tail of a Russian Su-27
Lil dwarf Rudey
2024-10-10 22:57:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
He's been a lifelong crimer,
Why are you prosecution exempt so far Rudey?

Let's all change that:


Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party/Alan Bond and a few dozen other
socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path:
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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400


Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <***@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <v5f66o$1mps9$***@dont-email.me>
References: <v54h6j$39cuk$***@dont-email.me> <v54hrs$38mfs$***@dont-email.me>
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alt.politics.nationalism.white:10913 talk.politics.misc:1295918
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:3024985
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
is an important step to getting there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.


https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

The United States Secret Service is conducting the investigation in this
case. The United States Attorney’s Office, District of Arizona, is
handling the prosecution.


Those can be reported here:

https://tips.fbi.gov/home

https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-crime-or-submit-complaint

https://www.secretservice.gov/contact

https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something/reporting/california


Fellow citizens, won't you join in ending Rudey's terrorism here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lil dwarf Rudey
2024-10-10 19:24:57 UTC
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Post by Chris Ahlstrom
"Oh, now we're closing it again."
Why are you death threat prosecution exempt by the Feds so far?

And after _so many_ death threats on Trump and Vance...

Let's do our best to change that, shall we:


Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party/Alan Bond/Henry Bodkin and a
few dozen other socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
References: <***@earthlink.com>
<***@185.151.15.160>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
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From: Governor Swill <***@gmail.com>
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talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400


Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

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From: J Carlson <***@gmx.com>
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Post by Chris Ahlstrom
No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
is an important step to getting there.
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That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.


https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

The United States Secret Service is conducting the investigation in this
case. The United States Attorney’s Office, District of Arizona, is
handling the prosecution.


Those can be reported here:

https://tips.fbi.gov/home

https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-crime-or-submit-complaint

https://www.secretservice.gov/contact

https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something/reporting/california


Fellow citizens, won't you join in ending Rudey's terrorism here?

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